Biden says Bush Admin. criminal violations will be pursued
By Cernig Wednesday Sep 03, 2008 2:00pm
How did I miss this, as reported by the UK's Guardian? Why isn't it a major news story in the U.S.? Ah yes...it's all about Sarah.
Biden's comments, first reported by ABC news, attracted little notice on a day dominated by the drama surrounding his Republican counterpart, Alaska governor Sarah Palin.
But his statements represent the Democrats' strongest vow so far this year to investigate alleged misdeeds committed during the Bush years.
"If there has been a basis upon which you can pursue someone for a criminal violation, they will be pursued," Biden said during a campaign event in Deerfield Beach, Florida, according to ABC.
"[N]ot out of vengeance, not out of retribution," he added, "out of the need to preserve the notion that no one, no attorney general, no president -- no one is above the law."
Obama sounded a similar note in April, vowing that if elected, he would ask his attorney general to initiate a prompt review of Bush-era actions to distinguish between possible "genuine crimes" and "really bad policies".
Back in April, Obama said that he would ask his AG to "immediately review the information that's already there" and determine if an inquiry is warranted. Biden's statement simply confirms that the Obama campaign hasn't backed off from that intention.
But "genuine crimes." Where do we start? That would be a really good discussion to have right now, in my opinion. Aggressive war, torture, illegal rendition to torture, surveillance without warrants, criminal negligence over Katrina, various counts of perjury before Congress...
Instead we get endless talking heads pretending they don't know what their conservative guests really think - or even say when they think the mikes are off.
Update: In between when I wrote this post on Tuesday night and its posting today, Biden backed off his statement (H/t - JC in comments).
Biden emphasized that "no one's talking about President Bush. ... I've never heard anybody mention President Bush in that context." He noted that "there's been an awful lot of unsavory stuff that's gone on ... but I have no evidence of any of that. No one's talking about pursuing President Bush criminally."
Biden concluded his comments by explaining that possible misdeeds are
"being looked into now, just so it never happens again in any other administration. ... The Obama-Biden administration is not going to start off saying, 'God, let's go take a look at what this --.' The American people want to know what we're going to do, not what happened."
I understand the arguments on why the Obama campaign should tread softly on this - that it will simply enrage and energize the Republican base. But Palin has already energized that base and in any case this whole triangulation thing strikes me as spineless fence-sitting.
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Amy Goodman was arrested. Add that to the list of crimes this administration has committed.
Yep. Persued right off the table ....
Obama and Biden are obligated to act now. The fact they say if they elected suggest they are pandering for votes.
I will not hold my breathe on this one.
Doesn't he need Pelosi's permission to investigate Bush? She as good as said there would be no investigations until Bush was actually convicted of something.
Why is 9/11 left out as a "genuine crime"? Surely there was, at the very least, criminal negligence behind that?
It was inaccurate, Biden explains it all on Faux and Freeks
http://media2.foxnews.com/thumbnails/i/090408/090408_ff_biden_90x70.jpg
It would be worth it to see some right wing-nut heads explode.
Those that weren't fleeing the country anyway.
Yes...
Send all the torturers, Iraq war criminals, Guantanamo architects, secret prison administrators, illegal wiretappers, and white house staffers (Libby and Rove) to jail for their crimes.
Not surprisingly, Biden's now backed off his comments, saying that "no one's talking" about criminal charges against Bush, and that any investigation will not be to prosecute but to prevent similar crimes from taking place again. I suppose Biden would cause a wingnut firestorm if he stuck with his statement to prosecute Bushco crimes. On the other hand, I find it difficult to believe that the Dems will pursue Bush and his coconspirators, considering how many Dems fit that description. On the other hand, the calls for prosecution of the Bushco criminals are not going to go away.
I've been saying for a long while now:
Even Bush deserves a fair trial.
Your about a day late on this one and well more than a dollar short. You missed the follow up from today that kind of disputes it. Basically, teh google is not your friend. You are as useless as tits on a bull.
Biden Denies Report
According to Biden they have seen no evidence of criminal wrongdoing by the Bush Admin. Sad sad sad. It's just unfathomable that Biden can say that with a straight face. Nothing will change and it will still be business as usual. New boss same as the old boss.
Here's a quote from the article:
"What is true is the United States Congress is trying to preserve records on questions that relate to whether or not the law has been violated by anyone," Biden said, adding: "But, you know, there's been an awful lot of unsavoury stuff that's gone on. And the mere fact … that it occurred in a previous administration doesn't mean [a subsequent] Justice Department, if, in fact, there's evidence, shouldn't pursue them. "But I have no evidence of any of that. No one's talking about pursuing President Bush criminally."
The fact they keep saying that irritates me, because it's obvious to all but the most mentally challenged that if you *don't* *even* *look*, you won't find any evidence.
MSM won't report this. Why? They are complicit too. For years the MSM (under the bogus tag of liberal media) has let their corporate masters write their script to parrot to us lemmings. Hence the Iraq War and other abuses.
The law=whatever the White House says. Walk down the street in Minneapolis, get arrested for terrorism. Invade a sovereign nation, perfectly legal...
That's a pretty big IF.
JC @ 11:
Oh yeah, and you are the assclown who defended Joe Klein as being some kind of ethical journalist.
You are such a worthless contributor to C&L. Find a new job.
You know, one that isn't above your third grade reading/comprehension level. How the heel did you graduate from High School!!!
Damnit what fucking more do you assholes in Congress need?
People were tortured. Torture is against the Law. Bush admitted that he authorized it. Therefore, Bush violated the law.
The FISA law said that it was to be the exclusive means by which intelligence could be collected on American targets. In january of 05, Gonzales held a press conference and said that from that point forward the administration would comply with the FISA law. This indicates that before January 05, the administration was NOT in compliance with the FISA law. This is cooperated by the Bush desire to go end around the FISA court. It doesn't matter what his excuse is, he violated the law.
These two things together mean that Bush has committed multiple felony violations of Federal law.
You don't even need to look into the allegations that his administration hired a Iraqi to fake documents tying Saddam and Bin Laden together, but if it's true conspiracy to defraud defrauding the Federal Government is also a felony. So is the actual commission of the fraud.
So any way you look at it - YOU ALREADY HAVE REASON TO PROCEED WITH CRIMINAL CHARGES.
So either get your balls out of Bush's pocket and proceed with them or fucking shut up.
Anthrax?
Biden has some positives but he definitely has his minuses.
Obama’s Zionist Wannabe Veep - video at link
Any mention of prosecution of the Bush administration sure brings out the concern trolls to tell everyone how terrible the Democrats are.
Don't get to excited, Mr Biden has already flip flopped see,
"Biden: 'No one's talking about pursuing Bush criminally"
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Biden_would_prosecute_Bush_officials_if_09...
Obama won't be prosecuting anyone with maybe the exception of a scapegoat or two. Way to many big names Dems are weaved into the the slime pit so don't hold your breath for any real law enforcement or accountability. Thats why "impeachment" was immediatley put "off the table" I'm afraid the rot has reached the point of no return down there. Face it if your country got half as excited about a govt violating your Constitution and govt santioned war crimes as they do about a accidental nipple exposure you might have some hope, but thats not the way it is for either party. Sad but true.
JC @ 17:
Are you having a conversation with yourself, Peaches?
testes
testes...
1
2
3?!
Biden can start with Rove's abuses of power within the Justice Department: http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/3/freed_from_jail_fmr_democratic_gove...
AMY GOODMAN: Have you spoken to President Clinton?
DON SIEGELMAN: I have. It was a private conversation. He called the other day. He was concerned and wanted to know how he could help.
AMY GOODMAN: Al Gore?
DON SIEGELMAN: Al Gore has called.
AMY GOODMAN: And what can they do?
DON SIEGELMAN: Talk to their friends in Congress, ensure that this [Rove's] contempt citation is voted on. I really believe that this is the linchpin, if we’re going to get to the truth. And here’s why: if we let Rove off the hook, if he gets in his getaway car, thumbing his nose at the Constitution, Congress and the American people, laughing all the way to the bank, then all of these other people who were engaged in misdeeds, perhaps crimes, with him are going to breathe a collective sigh of relief, because they’re going to say, “Whew, we’re off the hook too.” If Rove is held in contempt, they know that a judge has ordered—that there is no blanket executive privilege. He will have to come to the Judiciary Committee at some point to answer questions. And they know that their subpoena may be next, and they are not going to—all of them are not going to go to prison for Karl Rove. Somebody is going to come forward and say, “He told me to do it.” We already have the sworn testimony of a Republican lawyer who places Rove at the scene of the crime, who has identified Rove in a conspiracy to abuse his power and misuse of the Department of Justice for political reasons.
what rights or immunity do the people of the administration, president and vice keep when they leave office?
rove cited executive privilege when he was called upon and all he does is talk on tv.
YES! GO GET `EM PLEASE! Bring each and everyone of them in front of the jury, judge court for all their crimes and misdemeanors! The list is so long but DK has about 35 items to start with!
Oh yeah, THAT post makes it on the board
"Where do we start? That would be a really good discussion to have right now"
I don't agree. All an instant discussion would accomplish would be to divert attention away from the much more serious issues facing us...Palin and McCain's poor judgment in choosing her.
This woman is so incompetent, corrupt and unqualified that were McCain to be elected, the USA is put in jeopardy should he croak while in office. Our attention should be directed at making that point to the undecided voters and MSM.
People of all partisan interests and affiliations should be offended, insulted and angry at McCain for choosing Palin. That won't happen if attention is directed to Bush's misdeeds at this time.
Ol. George better get that compound set up in Paraguay post-haste! Oh, don't know what I'm talking about? Just Google "Bush buys property in Paraguay" and see what you think.
BTW, if the story is true...
day late and a dollar short, Joe - I'm not buying that car this time.
More
DON SIEGELMAN: . . . I am terribly fearful that—because I know Democrats—we are so magnanimous in victory, we are so excited about the future, we are so sure that we can bring positive change, that we want to forget about the past, let bygones be bygones. When Jimmy Carter was elected, he forgot about Watergate. When Bill Clinton was elected, he forgot about Iran-Contra. And what is the tendency and the history of Democrats when they win is to not dwell on the negatives.
Well, my point is positive change. Yes, you know, the war is important, and we must end it, and we must bring our troops home safely. We must work for healthcare for every American. We must work to save our environment. But we also must work to save our democracy and save our election system and ensure that people have the hope and belief that when they vote, their vote’s going to be counted, and when they run for office they’re not going to be prosecuted by some Rove clone who wants to do this guy in or woman in because they don’t like them. If it can happen to the governor of Alabama, it can happen to you, and it can happen to any member of your family at any time for any reason.
samdog @ 29:
Extradition Treaty With Paraguay
Shan @ 13:
I guess I was right: he does need Pelosi's permission, and she's not giving it.
OK I know I'm not voting for McCain/Palin. Obama/Biden looks shabbier day by day. I live in Texas, so any non-Republican vote doesn't count anyway. I guess I could either stay home on election day or start vetting a new country.
sluzzuls @ 25:
Rove most likely has a lot of shit on a lot of people.
Let's focus on getting them elected before we leap to the next stepping stone. If we don't get them elected we know what's going to happen. If the subject was changed right now to these sorts of investigations the middle of the roaders might jump ship. Those people are more concerned about the economy and the war than imprisoning bush. We don't want to derail the train at this point. Hell no one in the world would love to see the whole bush administration hauled off to prison more than I would, but to turn the campaign in that direction right now just doesn't sound like a good idea to me.
Along with many others, I believe the record is already stuffed with evidence of criminal acts, at all levels.
If the Democrats want to really blow this election wide open, they will RIGHT NOW begin assuring the voters that, after the election and the Obama administration begins, one of the first orders of business will be to initiate investigations and prosecutions of the "evil-doers" within and without the Bush mis-administration.
Should they be prosecuted here for their violations of American law or should they be sent to the UN to stand trial in an international court?
2 sides. Same coin.
Yawn.
New poll shows 51% of people think the reporters are trying to hurt Palin. Who the Hell are these people? Do they live in Alaska?
Words from politicians are the cheapest spoken. How about some ACTION?
How are the Democrats going to prosecute Bush and company when THEY are complicit in the very same crimes?
I'm not holding my breath like a lot of other people. I'll be glad when Obama/Biden take office but if just one person from BushCo is indicted I'll be surprised. Just don't see it happenin'! Bad for the Country, Gerald Ford, Nixon Pardon, etc. But if there's only one indictment, please make it Karl Rove.
P.D. @ 39:
That would be many of the 62 million morons that voted for W...the SECOND TIME.
What makes you think Obama's AG will find anything when Nancy Pelosi can't see where any laws were broken? Nice talk from Obama, but I expect nothing to come from it.
And in 'other' news, the Amurikan sheeple stay fast asleep.
Charles @ 42:
And since there were ONLY 50.5 million morons that voted for W the first time, the number of morons in this country is growing at an alarming rate.
“out of the need to preserve the notion that no one, no attorney general, no president — no one is above the law.”
got my vote.
i'll give a kidney to see certain administration officials behind bars too.
a spleen for chimpy or vader.
Speaking of criminal activities and investigations, check out the latest news regarding Palin's refusal to cooperate with an official investigation:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/212774.php
Charles@42, Bingo! The level of stupidness in this country is incredible. People can tell you who the finalists are on American Idol. But they couldn't tell who is their State Representitive. Sad.
lucid fiction @ 44:
That's not news, that's PROGRESS.
Hahahahaha!
P.D. @ 39:
A new poll has shown that 3 out of 2 people are really bad at math...
P.D. @ 48:
Especially sad for those of us who see what's happening and cringe. It's simply repulsive. Our country is lost in a sea of stupidity.
None of this matters because the democrats are not going to win. The events of the last few weeks has left me convinced that our democracy is irretrievable. The very overt strongarming of the press, from the arrests to mccain/vp threats to shut out any journalists that dare to question their campaign, shows the republicans to be in full frontal fascist mode. They are up front in our face, telling us they're through being nice guys. The MSM will grovel more than they ever have, and the masses will be brainwashed into believing, well, anything.
Charles @ 45:
It explain the GOP's opposition to sexual education and contraceptive measures among the white trash...
Your forgetting something Bush Covered his ass.........
He legalized torture!
"In short, the United States government has concluded that the attacks of September 11 have placed the United States in a state of armed conflict, to which the laws of war apply.
It has also determined that members of the al Qaeda terrorist network and the Taliban militia are illegal combatants under the laws of war, and so cannot claim the legal protections and benefits that accrue to legal belligerents, such as prisoner of war status under the Third Geneva Convention of 1949."
Summary:
The Geneva Conventions do not apply to terrorist organizations such as al-Qaeda."—Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, May 13, 2004
We all know he committed War Crimes but he has gone through loop holes.
He may not get charged......... which is disgusting
Abbybwood @ 47:
Well, naturally. What do you expect, except the constant cover-ups and obfuscation?
Tyler Durden @ 53:
Or it explains the increased role of DIEBOLD.
P.D. @ 39:
No, they're the same "mainstream Americans" that twice put Bush in office; believed Saddam was directly involved with the 9-11-01 terrorist attack; were certain Saddam had WMDs ready to deploy against America; think spying on Americans is OK-- after all, if you've got nothing to hide, what's your problem with it?; think offshore drilling is the quickest and surest way to solve our energy problems; thought they could easily afford a $300,000 house on an income of $30,000 with nothing down, a $28,000 car loan, and $20,000 in credit card debt; and care more about who they vote for on American Idol than on who they vote for for president. They're your neighbors.
Charles @ 49:
LOL...........and they think 'change' is coming........... Hahahahahaha
Diana @ 52:
since they face criminal prosecution under a democratic administration, my guess is that the republicans will do anything and everything to ensure a mcbush victory . . . why would mass murders and pathological frauds hesitate to steal another election?
So everybody's upset because Obama/Biden won't come out and say what we want them to say and if elected may not do everything we, as progressives, want them to do.
Well kids we ARE truly fucked if we think change in this country is going to come from the top down.
Our only chance is that Obama will be receptive to the People’s issues when he takes office. We know what McSame’s about, chances are Obama won’t be worse but is he going to save us? No way boys and girls, we are the only ones who can save us. Buy less, get out of debt, voluntarily lower your “standard of living”, support local networks of merchants and services……if all of us do a little and set a positive example it WILL add up to a lot. Make sure your own house is in order and support those who you have influence with to help them do the same. It is the only way and the only hope for real and meaningful change.
(gracefully stepping off my soap box and going about my business, peace and respect to all of you)
Diana @ 52:
Quite correct. The Republicans will stop at nothing and the Democrats seem to implode or lose on purpose and follow through with none of their promises or investigations; and thus maintain the status quo by NOT taking any action, except for the occasional speech against their fictitious enemies, the Republicans.
JC @ 17:
Talk is cheap, especially during an election season.
Don't hold your breath!
Hey, come on now...
It's not like Bush got a BJ from an intern or anything serious like that.
lucid fiction @ 57:
Oh change is coming. The conclusion of the ushering in of this nefarious totalitarian fascist corporate police state. In fraud we trust!
Ever get a feeling there are a few little old withered grey haired and bald men sunning on huge yachts ultimately calling all the shots about what gets said and not said in the MSM?
YourMom @ 63:
Just another massive example of conservative hypocrisy in this joke of a country.
L.A. Confidential @ 65:
Yeah...the bastards!
L.A. Confidential @ 65:
That is almost exactly what I think. The leaders are the Rockefeller's and Rothchild's.
Chicken "Hussein" Little - Not! @ 59:
Excellent dismount from the soap box! You nailed it and I'll give you a ten. ;)
Charles @ 55:
ITS NO LONGER DIEBOLD,
ITS: Premier Election Solutions
AND YES, I AM YELLING. :)
P.D. @ 39:
Do we have a figure on how many of that 51% think it's a good thing?
"There will be, in the next generation or so, a pharmacological method of making people love their servitude and producing a dictatorship without tears, so to speak. Producing a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them but will rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel - by propaganda, brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods; and this seems to be the final revolution."
- Aldous Huxley (The Final Revolution, 1959)
L.A. Confidential @ 65:
Oh LA, oh yeah. They can't be eliminated but they can be sidelined. Only way it happens is by our acting out of our best natures. Time to get our groove on and for a small, but critical core of human beings to ramp it up. Only chance we've got. Most folks are followers, somebody's going to lead them, if it isn't us, well there are always the few little old withered grey haired and bald men.
"The Technetronic era involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values."
- Zbigniew Brzezinski
You're fucking delusional if you think there's gonna be ANY investigation, indictment, or prosecution of the Busheviks...
the weasel words follow: "“If there has been a basis upon which you can pursue someone for a criminal violation, they will be pursued,” Biden said during a campaign event..."
Attorney General Snott Mucasey sez there's no criminal grounds to pursue Gonzalez or any of the criminals in DoJ.
That's the low-hanging fruit, the easy pickins...
There is NO desire in Congress among the Dims to be reminded of how often and how deeply they were complicit with the Bushevik thugs, gunsels and pimps.
And, on top of that, should the 'new' admin (if it comes to be) even hint that they'd go after any of the criminal acts of the Pukes these last 8 years, they'd have impeachment papers on the table sooner than you can say Pelosi's a pussy.
No incoming, newly inaugurated presimidunt is gonna try to prosecute his predecessor, if for only the reason that if he did, he'd be inviting the same treatment from his successor.
"The CFR, dedicated to one-world government, financed by a number of the largest tax-exempt foundations, and wielding such power and influence over our lives in the areas of finance, business, labor, military, education, and mass communication-media, should be familiar to every American concerned with good government, and with preserving and defending the U.S. Constitution and our free-enterprise system. Yet, the nation's right-to-know machinery, the news media, usually so aggressive in exposures to inform our people, remain conspicuously silent when it comes to the CFR, its members and their activities."
- Congressman John R. Rarick
This is gonna be Clinton all over again. "We need to bring the country together and heal the wounds."
And the Wolfowitz, Perle, Feith, Yoo, and Goodlings of the world will return some day in another Repub admin to make life miserable for the American people.
Charles @ 55:
Rigging the vote would only work if it's really close. If the exit polls differ from the reported count by too much, there might finally be some serious questions asked. I almost hope they try it.
earl @ 70:
No need to yell but, keep reminding everyone.
L.A. Confidential @ 65:
I'm expecting "Licking Boots 101" to be mandatory in kindergarden anytime now.
Charles @ 74:
That's what everybody was so excited about China for: it's the first emergence of this technocratic society, wherein prosperity is NOT accompanied by civil rights and liberties...
Why the hell do you morons keep chasing Bush. Don't you know he's gone in a few months? If you feel so bad for the poor, tortured terrorists, why not bake them some cookies.
Here's an idea. How about we torture the little bastard anarchists that are throwing piss and sh*t at cops outside the RNC?
Or, maybe taking a REAL look at Obama and his NOTHING record. It blows me away how full of your own crap you guys can be. But that's right, the Dems are the kind, compassionate party.
....riiiiight.
pissed off patricia @ 69: