Is McCain ducking the debate because the 'economy' will be included?
By John Amato Wednesday Sep 24, 2008 2:06pm
(Oliver) I've always felt that in the debates, America will finally see Obama and McCain side by side discussing important issues and for those that are undecided, decisions will be made. I've written that the debates are essential for Obama to pull ahead and stay there all the way to November. And the imagery alone will favor Obama. He looks confident, reassuring and strong while McCain looks tired and haggard. His face visibly shows the wear and tear of the campaign. That's important in our pop culture world.
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I thought that the economy should have been the first topic that's debated by Obama and McCain because of the awful shape we find ourselves in. Friday's topic was supposed to be "national security," but Marc Ambinder writes:
Friday's Debate Will Focus In Part On The Economy
24 Sep 2008 08:00 pm
It has to, right?How could Jim Lehrer, a newsman, not ask about the economy?
Well, he will.
A senior Obama adviser says that the CPD has told both campaigns that there will be questions about the economic crisis during Friday's debate. They were told this last week...
Since McCain knew about this last week I wonder if he's trying to duck out because in all the polling that's been done, Obama has a substantial lead on the economy. He pulled his stunt yesterday even though he's not involved in any committee, but it looks like the debate will take place without him. And now there's some thought saying that McCain will vote against the new bill.
Interestingly, when President Bush addressed the nation just minutes later, he essentially agreed to the exact same set of principles in his own speech. So the question is: Why wouldn't McCain agree to a fairly innocuous, Mom and apple pie set of conditions for a bill?
Democrats fear this morning that McCain is setting up a scenario in which he will vote against the bill, rally conservatives to his side and, most importantly, distance himself from both President Bush and Congress before the election.
As Digby says:
One thing you can bet on is that if McCain votes for the bill, he will certainly take credit for having knocked the heads together to make it happen. And if it happens before tomorrow, he'll say it was a result of his cunning, well-timed threat to cancel the debate and force a resolution. I don't think it will work, but it's all he's got.
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Foist!
[Deleted. Off topic, spamming and suspiciously blog-whoring. Site Monitor]
And furthermore...McPalin can kiss my poor, about to be laid off, ASS!
[Deleted. Off topic. We've got a thread dedicated to that subject that's still on the front page. This thread concerns McCain, and whether or not he's ducking the debate. Thank you. Site Monitor]
I expect that McCain will have the Republican lawyers file a lawsuit to prevent the debate from happening without him.
That left eye will close completely by the end of the debate...
McCain has no choice now but to go to the debate, ill-prepared with egg on his face. It's beautiful.
his campaign won't even dare suggest that his landing in DC prompted the breakthrough in the negotiations. Americans are tuning-out on his campaign in droves.
Some pretty pictures from yesterday:
http://freewayblogger.blogspot.com/2008/09/bay-areamailbag.html
I've been getting a lot of search engine traffic about the legality of this, so maybe people are finally getting pissed off enough to join me.
i too suspected something along the lines of mccain showing up in washington to show how "maverick" he is. but he does it for purely political reasons! its intellectually sickening. his staunchest supporters will gobble it up though and dig their heels deeper.
well, mccain argued that "energy" is a national security issue.
i think the "economy" is also a national security issue.
right?
yes he's ducking 'cause he doesn't know jack about the economy or much of anything else. he realizes that obama will take him apart. Pallin will offer a lot more in the debate; she has good skills, just not good knowledge or judgement. so john will wait on her. surprising how this is the best this country has to offer. but then again, look as the current guy, the absolute village idiot.
McChicKen
bwoK bwoK bwoK!!!
Has no McNuggeTs
bwoK bwoK bwoK!!!
.....is it just me or is anyone else reminded of Cotton Hill (Hank Hill's father on "King Of The Hill" TV show) every time they see McCain??
I've got to believe he's ducking the debates for a combination of reasons:
1) His abysmal track record on the economy;
2) His decline in the polls;
3) Quite realistically his health! (Postponing the debate gives him a chance to be out of sight for a few days and rest or recuperate);
4) His campaign desperately wants to pre-empt the VP debate...go to TPM Election Central and view the second segment of Palin talking to Katie Couric. If you can figure out what she's talking about, you win a prize. I sure as hell can't.
There's no way the McCain campaign wants Palin talking publicly--without wearing a wire.
my theory: McCain is using this economic 'crisis' as an excuse to push the 1st prez debate back to the date of the VP debate. rescheduling the VP debate to TBD later date, giving Palin some more time to cram.
McCain is in meltdown. The straight talk express has gone over a cliff and low information voters think he can lead our nation. How sad is that?
Dhalgren @ 7:
Oh I bet his "McSpain/Plain Campaign" will definitely suggest that. It's about all they've got left.
hermano @ 10:
Damn straight. It was Bin Laden's plan to hit the World TRADE Center.
Don't get too confident of Obama's chances in these debates. I don't think it will at all be a case of Obama looking confident and presidential versus McCain looking old and tired.
President Bush lost the arguements but won the elections in his debates. Because even though his answers were all wrong, he believed his own bullsh*t, and therefore came accross as sincere, decisive, and strong.
Al Gore and John Kerry made the mistake of thinking that Americans follow and understand long-winded, logical, rational explanations to complex problems. They don't. They react to images and impressions. If your answer requires an explanation past two sentences, you already look indecisive, shifty, professorily elitist, and impossible to relate to.
Obama is the consumate big-tawkin', high-falluten, thinks-he's-so-smahrt elitist that the majority of Americans (that portion that decides elections) fear and are suspicious of. McCain is the simplistic, one-line answer, don't-think-too-hard, sincere old war-hero that most Americans can feel comfortable with. And people vote their feelings, NOT logic or their best interests. Thus, two Bush terms.
These debates are very, very, dangerous for Obama.
McCain was afraid to debate Obama, and he cut and ran.
Lets not forget, he also wants to delay the VP debate too, even after ask for a "looser" format to accommodate her.
17th!
is that more or less idiotic that posting "first!"?
repuiblicans live on fear. land of the brave indeed!
The only people who are going to find excuses for McCain not attending the debate are those who will vote for them no matter what he did. He could publicly beat a bag of puppies to a messy pulp and they'd still find an excuse. But the people on the fence will probably see the truth. At least some of them. Besides the only was he can find an excuse now that there's a bill/plan/ consensus in committee is if there's a late Friday night vote and these senators like to be done and home by 2.
Let Nader, Barr and McKinney debate!
See Nader here speak about the bailout and how socialism saves capitalism again.
Amalink @ 24:
you really have to be careful...repblicans are very suggestable...i expect to see bags full of beaten puppies all over the place now
it will be interesting to see how things shape up on the hill. i don't think mccain is all that popular among the repubs in congress, he's stepped on a lot of toes and had quite a few run-ins over the years. it will be interesting to see if his fellow repubs let him hang out to dry on this sham visit to DC to avoid the debate.
Scott @ 19:
Sadly, this is all very true. Obama will have to be at the top of his game.
What really sucks is the higher standard Democrats are always held to. They may be smarter, but they have to prove they're able to relate better. They may have better ideas, but they have to present them in better soundbites. They may be patriotic, but they have to catch a robber at the 7-11 on tape in order to be "equal" to someone like Palin. Total bs.
Scott @ 19:
Have you even listened to Obama talk? He's down to earth straight talking no bullshitting and he doesn't say "my friends" twice a sentence.
Wonkette points out that postponing the debate until next Thursday (McCain has specified a date, finally) would knock out the VP debate. It's not that he's afraid to talk about the economy, he's afraid for Palin to talk about ANYTHING.
McFailin' can start up the Cold War again right in her own back yard.
Reports say McCain doubts he'll be at Friday's debate. If he misses one debate he will then claim the VP debate spot to make it up. Thus letting McFailin off the hook. He also doesn't want to debate before the bailout goes through. He will then claim kudos for the bailout at the next scheduled debate. The Repugs are playing out this election, by rearranging the deck chairs on a day to day basis, changing the rules, shifting the goal posts, each time trying to swing it their way. We will see something new being thrown up on a daily basis. Stay tuned folks.
WHERE THE HELL IS CHENEY!!!!!
Could ANYONE ever have anticipated the Pukes would try to game the system?
It's not like they've ever trie...errrr, ummmm....wait a minute...I do seem to recall some small chicaneries in a few instances in recent memory...
By the way, to err is human...
To Arrrrr is Pirate.
Required @ 6:
Anybody else notice anything weird with McCain's left eye recently?
i love the smell of repube despiration in the morning.
Scott @ 19:
You make very valid points. I just hope that the major difference between obama and kerry/gore is obama's street smarts and instincts. we saw a bit of it at his acceptance speech. i hope he's just holding his fire for the debate and really does a bitch slap on the old man.
Yes that may be all he has got left but we also have to remember that many of those same Conservatives have also been pushing for this bailout to save the banking system. If he votes against that bailout it may come back to bit him during the debates when he attempts to defend it knowing full well that the entire financial system is facing a meltdown. To add further insult to injury will be when he tries to clarify his vote while having no knowledge about economics in general. McCain is notorious for his lack of economic understanding and Obama, if he is wise will do to McCain on economic issues what Romney and Paul did to him during the Republican primaries.
Good lord, look at his left eye....did he have a stroke? Is he dying before our eyes?
Why aren't they hitting him harder on this. This is total cowardice on McCain's part. He's afraid to debate Obama ,,period.
motorfingaz @ 33:
I'm guessing he's not releasing his med records becaswue they'll show his melanoma's back...from the look of h im, i'd say he's got mebbe 30 months...and to get that long, he'll have to undergo a lot of debilitating chemo...
Pres. Sarah?
Well McCain has been in DC just about all day and from what I'm hearing the super conservatives up there are balking at any agreement. I guess he hasn't been able to bump too many heads together yet.
Is he trying to avoid the debate? Hell yes! If he was so concerned he would have gone to DC on Monday and tried to get this thing worked out before the debate was so close.
And for some Sarah fun, try to figure this out.
COURIC: Why isn’t it better, Governor Palin, to spend $700 billion helping middle-class families struggling with health care, housing, gas and groceries? ... Instead of helping these big financial institutions that played a role in creating this mess?
PALIN: Ultimately, what the bailout does is help those who are concerned about the health care reform that is needed to help shore up the economy– Oh, it’s got to be about job creation too. So health care reform and reducing taxes and reining in spending has got to accompany tax reductions.
viola @ 31:
Palin is actually cheney in drag. you've noticed they never appear together?!!
"One thing you can bet on is that if McCain votes for the bill, he will certainly take credit for having knocked the heads together to make it happen. And if it happens before tomorrow, he’ll say it was a result of his cunning, well-timed threat to cancel the debate and force a resolution. I don’t think it will work, but it’s all he’s got."
The bigger question is will the media give him a platform to produce this stunt and not call him on it.
rick street @ 41:
Cheney's smart. Evil, but shrewd and smart, Palin's dumber than runny dog-shit. Evil. But dumber than shit on a stick...
Ruthless People @ 42:
Sher.
because they'll start thinking they've been "too hard on the old man' and wanna make amends (and amens)...
First rule from the Art of War: never fight a battle you cannot win.
Seriously, what's up with grandpa's eye? Did he have some kinda mild stroke or something?
with that seemingly non-functioning eye, he looks like one of the South Park characters after Cartman whacked him in the head with a stick.
willie @ 34:
Smells like....victory.
osamabinforgotten @ 2:
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Cobsjo @ 4:
[Deleted. Off topic. We've got a thread dedicated to that subject that's still on the front page. This thread concerns McCain, and whether or not he's ducking the debate. Thank you. Site Monitor]
Will all of Palin's "fans" be happy if she isn't given her time in a debate? Don't they want to see her show what she's got?
I mean this woman is being so used that I can't stand it. All she is to the campaign is a woman. They are treating like they want to keep her barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen.
If she is as dumb as she appears to be that makes McCain look like an idiot for choosing her. If he knew what she was like and chose her anyway thinking they could use her as window dressing that too is deplorable.
If she were a smart, strong, independent woman she wouldn't allow herself to be treated this way.
viola @ 31:
In his spider hole with a man hole cover and cinder block on top of it. The GOP is making certain their corrupt, secretive and deceitful poster boy does not come out till Nov 6th.
Long Suffering Progressive @ 37:
He almost looks like he has Bells Palsy. A presidential campaign is grueling for a 40 something, it's got to be hellish for a 72 year old. He's going to kick off and we'll be left with Moose.
Patrick @ 22:
Dunno...I posted "foist".
Don't be a hater Patrick.
You'll get to post foist one day...
But whether or not posting foist or 17th is idiotic...it IS certainly pointless. Yet fun.
Grandpa was really hoping this crisis would extend indefinitely, canceling the debates and positioning him as a deal maker, just like the hostage situation in Central America where the old man coincidentally happened to be there during the releases. Too bad.....somebody has some cramming to do.
What a fraud.
pissed off patricia @ 40:
I can believe Palin said that. When it comes to talking about issues outside of the relm of simple ideology she is dumber than a box of rocks. This bailout has nothing to do with healthcare reform or job creation at least not directly and if she is talking about reining in Government spending, well this bailout is a massive Government expediture. To attempt to enact further tax cuts now would be suicidal as this will reduce Government tax revenue further which will move even closer to monitizing the debt.
Cenk over at TheYoungTurks thinks it's because foreign policy is supposed to be McCain's strong point, but will be ignored because we're in the middle of a financial crisis. So McCain's supposed best debate will lose its edge due to timing.
congressive @ 45:
Second Rule:
DO NOT TALK ABOUT THE FIRST RULE!
pissed off patricia @ 51:
She's got 1 outta 3 down. She pops more buns out of the oven than Poppin' Fresh.
Required @ 6:
Speaking of that. Do you notice Palin's right bottom lip and how it droops? I receive a lot of crack addicts at my practice for hand injuries. Their lip droops just like that.
I will say that Obama's performance at the convention was a big step in the right direction. Very well done. If he can keep going in that direction, his chances improve.
McCain, Bush; their strength lies in that they really believe what they're saying at the moment in those debates. They've even talked themselves into believing their spoon-fed talking points. And contradicting something they said two days (or hours) ago doesn't shake these beliefs. They come across as "authentic", because they are.
Democrats like Obama (and Gore, and Kerry) too often actually THINK about the answers they're giving and get stuck stammering in the middle of their answers, trying so hard to be right and factual that they merely come across as being indecisive and unsure of their own beliefs.
MCCAIN: "I'm putting country before politics and suspending my campaing to solve the country's problems!"=strong, principled leader
OBAMA: "Well,..let me say this: McCain and a talked, and...we were going to issue a joint statment on..that is, we had agreed to, or I thought we...look, I know we've got a serious problem, but I think we should all step back for a second, and...you know, the president is going to have to deal with many things at once and...I think the people need to hear from their candidates about...Look, let me explain why actually being present in Washington isn't really that important to...see, there're these finance committees, and..."= Stammering, un-leader-like, flat-footed politician.
Harley @ 60:
When they talk. I forgot to add that. Watch her right bottom lip when she talks.
pissed off patricia @ 51:
POP: Yeah, for the last two weeks I have been having the same thoughts. What
in the world was McCain thinking when selecting Palin??? His "base supporters" were
most assuredly already on board, so his selection makes absolutely no sense to me.
Well, maybe that's it...McCain has no "sense" and he's out to prove it.
Sarah Palin had better wear something low-cut, otherwise people might actually listen to her, and be horrified.
pissed off patricia @ 40:
"Ultimately, what the bailout does is help those who are concerned about the health care reform that is needed to help shore up the economy– Oh, it’s got to be about job creation too. So health care reform and reducing taxes and reining in spending has got to accompany tax reductions."
HOLY CONFUSION BATMAN! She's trying to regurgitate all the Heritage Foundation bullshit in one sentence sprinkled with a little fake populism. But it's all jumbled up in her airy brain!
McCain might as well have Peter Sellers from "Being There" as his running mate.
I'm sorry if this has been posted already. It's a story about McCain backing out of a debate with Bush.
RobertD @ 28:
Intellectualism has been played down in this country. Furthermore, education (especially when it cut by the Republicans to provide for financial institutions and the military) suffers. Anyone "smart" stirs up a fear and suspicion. Knowing one or more languages because of the fear of "otherness" (while knowing several languages is pretty standard overseas). People who present ideas and theories of why the country is the way it is are often ostracized and belittled in the public eye and by politicians.
If you miss the fact that intellectuals are taking a beating in our society, you miss one of the key proponents of facism that is taking root in American life.
The choice of Bush, McCain and Palin alone shows how neglected education and intellectualism has become in this nation.
It's a crying shame.
Cenk explains his theory here starting at 2:00:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyjg8XotGA
I guarantee McDepends will take credit for anything and everything ; he's always been a drama queen who tries to take credit for every success and fob off blame onto others for every miniscule or monumental fuck-up.............
Just like every "good" Republican(t).............
No kiding around though, McCain looks like shit!!
He might not make it till november...
It is clearly obvious that McCain finds campaigning and having to answer challenging/complex questions to be a painful and unpleasant experience. He actually seems to resent questions he can't answer with a simple platitude or time worn sound bite. He gives the impression that he really doesn't want to explain himself or to actually inform the listener. While Obama is always at ease and smiles naturally, McCain looks uncomfortable in his own skin and his smile appears forced and phony. The visual comparison alone makes McCain look unpresidential compared to Obama, but what really makes McCain look bad by comparison is his inability to frankly explain his Republican voting record without either looking pathetically lost or shamelessly dishonest. When honestly explaining your voting record will insure your opponent's victory, lying is your only option. How is John McCain going to explain his voting record, his associations with lobbyists and his 90% support of George W. Bush's failed policies without repeatedly lying and thereby eliminate the option of denying what he said or claiming he was misunderstood or that he was quoted out of context? The biggest reason John McCain fears debating Barack Obama on national television is because Obama doesn't have to lie to win. McCain knows that if he wants to win the only way he can possibly accomplish that end is to lie about Obama or about himself. The debate stage for Obama is field of a roses, but for John McCain it's a field full of landmines.
Here is the plan. Move the Presidential debates to next Thursday (the day of the VP debates) and cancel the VP debates.
Operation Shield Palin.
The latest Gallup Daily Tracking Poll shows that McCain has closed back to even 46%/46%. His gimmick/scam/butt f'g of America is working. He'll certainly take credit for the uptick on the DOW today. Americans have left their critical minds at the door, to be manipulated by the marketeers and propogandists. They no longer DESERVE the right to vote.
Harley @ 62:
That lip is nowhere near her biggest detriment when she speaks ................................
The fact that there will be questions about the economy is a small part of it but His problem goes much deeper
McCain wanted the Townhall meetings because he cant think about 2 things at the same time without a script and wanted to control the topics while avoiding answering any direct questions about anything, as he has shown in the last 6 weeks by (not answering any direct questions with a real answer) and instead turning the answer into a "Well Barack does/says this" instead of answering any question.
McCain knew.... as soon as Barack Spoke at his Acceptance Speech ...that he was in waaaaay over his head.
McCain is Like an old Parrot that can only bark out a few lines he remembers by rote, his mind doesn't even function properly any longer (and he knows it) He was hoping to get up and Play the Part of the Candidate (like Reagan and Bluff his way into the Presidents office.
Now McCain is shitting in his pants, trying to avoid these debates (and trying to keep a naive and uninformed Palin from being questioned or participating in any Real debates) because he cant think, and talk at the same time, nor remember what his script writers have told him to say 80% of the time, nor does He, Palin or the Republican Party have ANY answers for the MESS they are responsible for creating.
snoozer @ 57:
they are interlinked
we have been borrowing and spending billions on a war and occupation that was supposed to pay for itself
never in our history has a prez cut taxes at a time of war
never in our history have we outsourced our entire manufacturing base
MCMetal @ 74:
Just making an observation.
Cobsjo @ 4:
[Deleted. Off topic. We've got a thread dedicated to that subject that's still on the front page. This thread concerns McCain, and whether or not he's ducking the debate. Thank you. Site Monitor]
MCMetal @ 74:
Normally i just turn off the sound and imagine her as the CILF, boobies flopping as we rock 'n' roll
Harley @ 77:
Understood .......... And it was spot on.
Doggiebobo @ 63: